I Know Dino Podcast Present Notes: Homalocephale/Prenocephale (Episode 98)

In our 98th episode, we had the pleasure of talking with Dr. Victoria Arbour, a NSERC Postdoctoral Fellow on the Royal Ontario Museum/College of Toronto, Canada and an ankylosaur professional. You possibly can comply with her on twitter @VictoriaArbour

Episode 98 can also be about Homalocephale (Prenocephale), a pachycephalosaurid that lived within the late Cretaceous in what’s now Mongolia.

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On this episode, we focus on:

  • The dinosaur of the day: Homalocephale (Prenocephale)
  • Homalocephale title means “even head”
  • A pachycephalosaurid that lived within the late Cretaceous in what’s now Mongolia
  • Described in 1974 by Osmólska & Maryañska
  • Just one species, sort species is Homalocephale calathocercos
  • Could also be a synonym (and juvenile type) of Prenocephale
  • Kind species is an incomplete cranium and postcranial materials. Had giant openings on the highest of the cranium and a big, spherical eye socket. Scientists described it as an grownup, regardless that it has juvenile traits (like a flat cranium). Then in 2010 Nick Longrich and others stated it could simply be a juvenile model of one other grownup pachycephalosaur (Horner and Goodwin additionally urged that in 2009). Longrich urged it was a juvenile or sub-adult of Prenocephale
  • Herbivore, about 6 ft (1.8 m) lengthy
  • Had a flat, wedge-shaped cranium roof, although the cranium was fairly thick (that is just like Dracorex and Goyocephale, and never just like different grownup pachcephalosaurs)
  • Had a broad pelvis (some paleontologists assume it could have had broad hips to offer reside beginning, others assume the broad hips helped shield organs throughout flank-butting)
  • Had lengthy legs and was quick
  • Had a really inflexible tail
  • Can see Homalocephale within the sport Jurassic Park: Operation Genesis (you construct your personal Jurassic Park)
  • Maryanska and Osmolska described Prenocephale in 1974
  • Identify means “sloped head”
  • Lived in Mongolia within the late Cretaceous
  • Fossils discovered embrace skulls and fragmentary put up cranial stays
  • Three species: Prenocephale prenes, Prenocephale brevis, Prenocephale edmontonensis
  • Kind species is Prenocephae prenes
  • One other urged synonym to Prenocephale is Sphaerotholus buchholtzae
  • Herbivore, about 7.8 ft (2.4 m) lengthy, weighing 280 lb (130 kg)
  • Prenocephale had a spherical, sloping head, with a row of smally bony spikes and bumps
  • Thought to have a stout physique with a brief neck, brief forelimbs, and lengthy legs (primarily based on different pachycephalosaurs, since all that’s been discovered is usually skulls
  • Some scientists assume Prenocephale could have been an omnivore (ate crops and bugs), although many assume it ate leaves and fruit
  • Most likely a selective browser, because it had a narrower snout than different pachycephalosaurs
  • Pachycephalosaurs could have head butted or they could have used their domes to draw mates
  • Teenage or younger grownup pachycephalosaurs have been greatest geared up to deal with head butting (skulls had radiating buildings that compressed, offered cushion throughout a struggle)
  • Adults don’t have these buildings
  • Frequent Practical Correlates of Head-Strike Conduct within the Pachycephalosaur Stegoceras validum (Ornithischia, Dinosauria) and Combative Artiodactyls revealed in PLOS ONE June 2011, by Eric Snively and Jessica M. Theodor
  • Snively and Theodor in contrast Stegoceras and Prenocephale skulls with head-butting mammals (like elk and musk ox) with CT scans. They discovered Stegoceras and Prenocephale domes have been most just like musk ox and duiker
  • Stegoceras was most in a position to head butt
  • Distributions of Cranial Pathologies Present Proof for Head-Butting in Dome-Headed Dinosaurs (Pachycephalosauridae) revealed in PLOS ONE July 2013, by Joesph E. Peterson, Collin Dischler, Nicholas R. Longrich
  • Peterson and his workforce studied 109 domes from 14 species to see if there was proof of head butting. 22% of these domes confirmed proof of osteomyelitis, which regularly comes from cranium trauma. As a result of there was a variety of proof of this, they concluded it was in keeping with the thought of intraspecies fight
  • In addition they checked out 30 skeletons of head-butting mammals and located that “Comparisons with accidents in extant bovids illustrate the variation in harm and lesion distribution associated to conduct and counsel that the distribution of accidents in extinct animals can subsequently be equally used to deduce conduct in extinct taxa”
  • Pachycephalosauria is a clade of ornithischians
  • Identify means thick headed lizards
  • Lived within the late Cretaceous in North America and Asia
  • Bipedal with thick skulls
  • Enjoyable truth:

This episode was dropped at you by:

The Royal Tyrrell Museum. The Royal Tyrrell Museum is positioned in southern Alberta, Canada. One of many high paleontological analysis institutes on the earth, all the museum is devoted to the science of paleontology. It’s undoubtedly a should see for each dinosaur fanatic. Extra data may be discovered at tyrrellmuseum.com.

For many who could want studying, see under for the total transcript of our interview with Dr. Victoria Arbour:

Garret: Victoria Arbour is a Postdoctoral Fellow on the Royal Ontario Museum/College of Toronto in Canada, and he or she is among the world’s main specialists on ankylosaurs, which is why I actually wished to speak to her. So personally my favourite dinosaur is Ankylosaurus. Is that your favourite dinosaur too, or do you want a unique ankylosaur higher?

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Oh it’s exhausting to resolve as a result of I like a variety of them rather a lot, however Ankylosaurus is unquestionably cool, it’s undoubtedly one among my favourite of the ankylosaurs. Yeah, I’d be exhausting pressed to select a really favourite one which I can love rather a lot like cool issues, there are a complete bunch of various ones.

Garret: Very cool, yeah your bio on the College of Alberta says that you just’ve recognized 4 new species of ankylosaurs earlier than you bought your PhD, is that true, that appears too unimaginable to be?

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Oh effectively it’s sort of true though perhaps I have to replace a few of these issues. So one of many initiatives that I labored on whereas I used to be a PhD scholar on the College of Alberta, was looking on the range of ankylosaurs in Alberta particularly by kind of broadly in North America and Mongolia. And one of many ankylosaurs that’s the most effective identified ankylosaurs known as Euoplocephalus. It may not be a very easy title to say however most ankylosaurs toys are literally Euoplocephalus not Ankylosaurus. So it’s like a extremely frequent one to see reconstructed, however they typically simply name it Ankylosaurus regardless that they’re totally different animals. However I can’t actually blame them, as a result of it’s not a very easy title to say.

This is among the dinosaurs that—or one of many ankylosaurs that we have now essentially the most specimens for, nevertheless it additionally has like a extremely lengthy stratigraphically. So it has like a very long time vary that it was present in, and the extra that we find out about Alberta dinosaurs particularly, the extra that we all know that they have an inclination to have comparatively restricted stratigraphically. So we discover them typically simply in a single a part of the geologic formation, and never fairly often do we discover them in multiple geologic formation inside Alberta, in order that’s fairly cool.

So I took a take a look at whether or not or not all these totally different specimens that we have been calling Euoplocephalus truly have been all one specie, as a result of there have been some variation and I wished to know whether or not or not that was similar to regular variation, to see whether or not the species, or whether or not or not if it actually had development or sexual dimorphism, and even simply squishing throughout fertilization.

So among the work that I did truly kind of, I didn’t title these species, however I resurrected previous species that had been bumped in with Euoplocephalus. There truly had been a few totally different species in Alberta, and again within the Seventies one other actually frequent Ankylosaurus researcher Walter Coombs determined that most likely all of these represented one species. However now with this new framework of dinosaur species, which is in Alberta, I used to be capable of finding that we had truly 4 totally different species had been lumped in with Euoplocephalus.

That was actually enjoyable, so we had an animal referred to as Dilophosaurus which is represented by a reasonably good skeleton on the Royal Ontario Museum, and it has a extremely skinny tail membership and a [inaudible 00:03:09] which is present in youthful segments than a lot of the Euoplocephalus specimen which might be present in that present park. It has a extremely cool pointed ax-like tail membership. And Scholosaurus, which is thought from a extremely nice skeleton that’s on show on the British Museum of Pure Historical past that has pores and skin impressions and all of it, osteoderms, and [inaudible 00:03:29] which is actually cool.

It’s additionally identified from specimens from Montana. So it’s one of many few that crosses the Alberta mark gender board. So yeah—so I didn’t get to call these new ones as a result of they’re fairly exhausting names, however I did get to indicate that they really have been distinct. And that we truly had a a lot larger range of ankylosaurs, and that not all the variations that we noticed in Alberta was similar to intra-specific variation that actually was totally different. That was a extremely enjoyable venture to work on.

Garret: Yeah that sounds actually cool. So if you find yourself doing that sort of analysis the place did you give you the previous species names? Had been they—all these ones—these particular ones had been beforehand recognized with totally different species names, after which lumped again collectively underneath the identical species?

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Yeah.

Garret: Okay.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Yeah, it’s a comic story; we don’t actually discuss kind of synonyms and resurrecting all issues, as a result of it’s simpler to speak about new names, like figuring out a brand new species. However that’s when a variety of Alberta dinosaurs have been being named; it kind of was like each new specimen obtained a brand new title. After which as folks discovered an increasing number of specimens, they might take a look at issues and be like, oh I’m not likely positive that these are all that totally different. There may be a variety of variation; we are able to’t have like 30 totally different species of ankylosaurs in like 2 million years in Alberta.

However perhaps all of those are actually only one, however like I stated now that we kind of obtained like a brand new framework for the way we consider these species and the way we perceive their distribution in Alberta, we have now a significantly better sense of—however there may be sort of totally different like cohorts of dinosaurs, specifics kind of teams that get discovered collectively on the similar time. After which they sort of shift and get a brand new group of dinosaurs, which is fairly cool.

Garret: Bought you, so it’s a little bit little bit of splitting after a complete bunch of lumping?

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Yeah, and I’ve thought actually it’s actually enjoyable. I actually like doing it, I like determining what species we have now. Nevertheless it’s all the time altering too as a result of new specimens result in new data that make you take a look at issues in a brand new gentle. So I believe it’s one among this stuff that’s all the time a little bit bit in flux regardless that you sort of need it to remain secure as a lot as attainable.

Garret: Yeah, and I believe at that stage the place you’re looking at whether or not they’re totally different species is a little bit bit simpler than the entire like ought to they be in the identical genus or not. I’ve been studying a bunch about that, and that’s such a multitude attempting to outline what a genus is.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Yeah, it’s actually tough. So what I did in my venture was I checked out all of the previous style. All of the previous genus issues as a result of I didn’t wish to make one thing actually sophisticated referred to as a brand new mixture, the place you want take a brand new genus title and take an previous species title and put them collectively, and so they kind of like a complete like hybrid title out of all the things. And the definition if you recognize what a genus is, is a little bit bit versatile and particularly totally different taxonomies engaged on my very totally different teams.

We’ll have kind of totally different ideas of what makes a genus versus a species. So for those who work on beetles your concept of the quantity of variations that you just use to name one thing a unique genus fairly than totally different species is sort of totally different from what dinosaurs actually focus to. However that’s okay; everyone kind of understands that there’s a little little bit of flexibility in there and that it’s not likely a tough and set rule. So the primary factor is that we attempt to be constant inside our personal teams, and simply sort of acknowledge the work that we’re all doing collectively.

Garret: Good, so so far as if you find yourself saying an ankylosaur, that’s truly a stage up from a genus proper, is that like…

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Yeah, it’s truly a few ranges up from a genus relying on what number of ranges do you want to acknowledge. So one of many issues—so ankylosaurs are a reasonably large group of dinosaurs. They aren’t like the largest group, they don’t seem to be as fairly as numerous as say just like the [inaudible 00:07:13], the issues that embrace like [inaudible 00:07:16] dinosaurs and the bottom [inaudible 00:07:17] and all types of fascinating creatures like that, however they’re fairly numerous and so they sort of have two essential teams.

There may be one group that’s referred to as the nodosaur ankylosaurs, and that by no means includes a tail membership that sort of pull like ax construction on the top of their tail, however they typically have like actually huge shoulder spikes. They maintain this kind of an extended snout that actually ankylosaurs had, and they’re fairly cool animals in their very own proper as effectively. The opposite essential group of the ankylosaurs are – these are those I spend most of my time with, and that’s the group that finally evolves a tail membership.

They have a tendency to have kind of a squash, like a squash snout, a extra kind of daring lengthy sort of face; they don’t have so long as [inaudible 00:08:00] has. In order that’s kind of like the 2 essential teams, and a lot of the ones that I’ve labored on are in that tail membership group.

Garret: Cool, so talking of tail membership evolution, I learn your paper on the tail evolution and it’s one among my favourite papers. And also you discuss how they went from a versatile tail in early ankylosaurs, and so they obtained a stiff tail a little bit bit later with some fused vertebrate or vertebrae. And then you definately had the membership finally forming with osteoderms on the finish of the tail.

So I used to be sort of curious once I was studying this, what’s the—simply how helpful having simply the stiff tail with out the osteoderms on it will be? Would it not be sort of like having a bat or one thing on a tail or…?

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Yeah, that’s how I prefer to image it. To me that’s one of the vital fascinating questions is that we’ve seen within the picture truly to have this sample such as you stated the place the tail turns into stiff effectively earlier than they get like a extremely giant a part of bone on the tip of the tail. They’ve osteoderms that go down the tail, however they most likely like peferred [ph] all the best way all the way down to the tip. After which solely a lot later do they get that kind of enormous like large ball of osteoderm on the tip.

So I sort of image having simply the deal with, kind of the deal with of the axe, the deal with of the tail membership is a bit like having a baseball bat on the top of the tail. So perhaps it’s not fairly as efficient a weapon as having that full axe head on it, but when somebody is chasing you round with an axe or chasing you round with a baseball bat, you will most likely run away from each of these issues, even when like a baseball bat can’t like chop your leg off or one thing.

I suppose that will be too grave [inaudible 00:09:39] I don’t need somebody to love smash a baseball bat, so yeah so I believe it might have functioned like that. I haven’t carried out any bionic chemical research of what an ankylosaur tail with no kind of no bone on the finish, how it will operate. However I believe that’s a extremely cool space that we might take a look at in future and attempt to perceive kind of just like the operate in biomechanics of kind of these hack tail golf equipment.

Garret: Yeah, since you did write a paper concerning the biomechanics of a tail with the membership proper? And also you confirmed that…

Dr. Victoria Arbour: That’s proper.

Garret: What was the conclusion you had there; I neglect precisely what you discovered?

Dr. Victoria Arbour: So what I used to be attempting to move in, I’ve a kind of a pair of papers, one the place I do some mathematical modeling to see how briskly it happens an ankylosaur completes its tail. After which I took that data and used finite factor evaluation, which is sort of a particular engineering method the place you may apply power to a digital mannequin of no matter you need, and see what occurs to it whenever you say smash it or one thing.

And so what I wished to know was whether or not or not ankylosaur is particularly might even like construct their tail membership with any vital quantity of power. After which extra importantly whether or not or not they may face up to that estimated power with no break. As a result of if they’ll swing it actually quick and exhausting however then it breaks as quickly because it touches one thing, most likely they might not have used their tail golf equipment in that method, as a result of that looks like poor design.

So yeah so the factor that I did was I additionally modeled kind of a variety of assumptions. It’s actually powerful in some methods to view among the biomechanical evaluation, as a result of we don’t have just like the muscle of the comfortable tissues that actually affect how animals transfer particularly in a tail the place there’s a number of totally different bones and plenty of muscle that assist transfer the tail in many various instructions.

So I used a variety of various assumptions like how a lot muscle there would have been on the tail, totally different kind of charges of muscular tissues contractions, totally different like lots of bone and issues like that. And we even have totally different sizes of tail golf equipment. So some tail golf equipment are fairly small, perhaps solely like 15 or 20 centimeters broad, however then some are actually, actually large. The largest one I believe I’ve ever measured is about 61 centimeters broad.

Garret: Wow.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Which is actually huge particularly when you think about like the quantity represented by that, wow. They’re actually heavy and I’m not completely even positive like how an animal eats one thing that heavy up off the bottom when it’s so distant from its physique. I believe it has rather a lot to do perhaps with the tendons that they’ve kind of ossified tendons that run alongside the tail. I’m getting off monitor right here, so the query—so the factor that I wished to know was whether or not or not they might break underneath these estimated forces that I did.

And the brief reply might be not. The longer reply is it’s actually exhausting to inform typically. So underneath a few of my mannequin assumptions the actually huge tail golf equipment would break underneath like the very best incurred forces. However underneath the kind of extra conservative estimates that I did about impression, velocity and mass and all of these enjoyable issues, they most likely might face up to it. Their tail golf equipment have been fairly good at dissipating the thrust by the knob and thru the deal with of the tail membership. And perhaps solely the very greatest one which they hit them actually exhausting would truly break their very own tails.

Garret: So how briskly did you assume that they might be swinging these tails? Was it similar to as quick as you’d want to interrupt one thing or have been nearly …

Dr. Victoria Arbour: I believe it will actually rely. I believe that for among the actually huge ankylosaurids with actually huge tail membership nodes, I believe that that most likely would have been like sufficient of a visible sign to opponents to not even method. In the identical method that like for instance a variety of like closely armored animals immediately like porcupines, like a variety of animals received’t even method these. They’re simply not prey and they don’t seem to be larger ear with larger [inaudible 00:13:40] sort of intimidate smaller ear with smaller [inaudible 00:13:42], and so they don’t even have like—as a result of they’ve obtained a sign there, a visible sign that claims I’m going to win.

So I believe that among the ones with the actually enormous tails most likely didn’t truly even use them a complete lot if we sort of take into consideration them like trendy animals. After which for a few of these, the kind of like extra affordable dimension one, say those in kind of 40 cm vary. I’d should look, I all the time neglect precisely what the impression velocity, and impression power precisely is. Nevertheless it’s rather a lot; it’s sufficient to interrupt bone undoubtedly. If an ankylosaur tail membership smashed into like a [inaudible 00:14:22] ankle or perhaps one other ankylosaur’s ribs, it undoubtedly would have cracked that bone. That’s a lot power behind them.

Garret: Yeah, that’s a very good measuring follow have, if it’s sturdy sufficient to interrupt bone you may not even go close to it.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Proper, yeah particularly like skinny bones like ribs and like ankle bones, I believe it will have been fairly weak.

Garret: Yeah, I believe that’s truly why I like ankylosaurs one of the best, as a result of it’s sort of like a type of pacifist animals. My spouse and co-host Sabrina loves sauropods, I believe for a similar purpose the place it’s like, effectively it’s so huge all the things simply leaves it alone.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Yeah, so I believe that’s very true. I believe particularly a variety of ankylosaurs have been most likely utilizing their tail golf equipment largely in opposition to one another actually. Once we see like weapons in most trendy animals, weapons are actually for preventing members of your personal species. A whole lot of weaponry evolves by kind of male to male fight, and curiously typically when it is advisable to defend a useful resource, in order that appears to be the driving kind of selective stress in trendy animals that evolve weapons. It’s nearly all the time males beginning some kind of useful resource associated to replica.

So there may be actually cool analysis on the market particularly on beetles, sacred beetles, rhinoceros beetles, the place the males are defending [inaudible 00:15:49] and kind of utilizing their weapons to shove different animals, like different members of that species away, in order that they’ll mate with the females in that world. In order that appears to be the primary purpose that weapons evolve, however actually weapons can be utilized to guard your self from the predators as effectively. However that’s most likely not likely like for driving selective stress behind a variety of weapons.

And so I suspected it’s most likely one thing related with ankylosaurs and it’s one thing that I’m hoping to research in a bit extra element as I maintain doing my analysis. So a variety of what I’ve been doing recently is how weapons evolve in ankylosaurs and different dinosaurs and different extinct animals like glyptodonts. In order that’s been a variety of enjoyable as effectively, nevertheless it’s tough to see a few of these issues out in extinct animals.

Garret: Yeah, glyptodonts, these are these like large armadillos with a spiky sort tail membership factor?

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Yeah, that’s precisely proper. One of many papers that I’m engaged on proper now could be looking at what kind of correlations are there related to having a tail membership. So what do ankylosaurs and glyptodonts have in frequent that may assist us perceive why they advanced these actually weird tails. The tail weapons are actually uncommon. Not very many animals ever actually use their tails in fight particularly in trendy animals, and there aren’t actually any trendy animals which have a specialised weapon with no tail. So one thing like a tail membership or say like a spike on [inaudible 00:17:19] tail.

So it’s actually solely in a few issues and they’re all extinct. In order that makes it a kind of enjoyable problem to strive to determine like what’s driving like tail weapon evolution, and what kind of led to this very related structuring to completely unrelated teams of animals, due to course such as you stated glyptodonts are—they’re simply huge armadillos. They’re simply actually huge eared armadillos. Eared armadillos that like have rigid tail items and brief skulls, and they’re herbivores, however they’re simply large armadillos. They usually evolve these actually bizarre tails which might be just like ankylosaur tails regardless that they kind of do their tail golf equipment in a barely totally different method. It’s nonetheless a extremely related construction in completely totally different teams of animals.

Garret: Yeah, do you could have any opinions on why extra animals don’t have these tail protection mechanisms?

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Yeah, so that is nonetheless analysis that’s sort of in progress, so it’d change a little bit bit as I end it up. However among the issues that appear to be kind of statistically vital for having a tail membership that actually correlated with it and have to be there first with the intention to have a tail membership are issues like being actually huge and armored. In order that’s most likely not shocking, however these issues appear to be in place first earlier than tail weaponry can evolve. And immediately we don’t actually have any huge armored animals.

Garret: Yeah.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: There are armored animals on the market are like armadillos and turtles, however none of them actually get this kind of actually gigantic sizes. And in order that is perhaps like a significant purpose that we don’t have tail golf equipment, or different tail weaponry round immediately, as a result of we simply don’t have like huge armored animals in any respect.

Garret: Fascinating, are there extra ankylosaurids or are ankylosaurids typically larger than nodosaurids?

Dr. Victoria Arbour: No truly if I’ve to essentially guess and I have to double-check this. However I believe that nodosaurs truly are sometimes a little bit huge larger than ankylosaurs.

Garret: Oh fascinating.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: However they’re all actually huge, so good, it’s kind of like splitting hairs a little bit bit there I suppose. So the very greatest ankylosaur ever I’m fairly positive is Ankylosaurus out of all ankylosaurs. It’s a extremely huge animal, it simply has an enormous head, and it most likely had an enormous physique as effectively though we don’t have any skeletons of it. However among the nodosaurs that we discover within the lake group options like [Adventomania] are additionally actually huge animals. And I believe they’re most likely at the least a little bit bit larger than the ankylosaurs that lived on the similar time. Issues like Euoplocephalus. Yeah so if I needed to guess I’d say that nodosaurs might need edged out most ankylosaurs besides Ankylosaurus.

Garret: Okay, that’s fascinating. Is there—you talked about a little bit bit concerning the protecting the tail off the bottom. I’ve observed that recreations of ankylosaurs or no matter you recognize articulations have been presenting the tail like slowly, greater and better off the bottom.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: My favourite illustrations of ankylosaurs are when ankylosaurids are proven with their tail like a scorpion place.

Garret: How good.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Like over their physique, like whooping, like a tyrannosaur on the face or one thing. I’ve some actually—I’ve a extremely, actually humorous assortment of photographs of ankylosaurs preventing. Different animals had actually bizarre ways in which don’t actually make any sense. However yeah, so I’m unsure in the event that they get greater. I believe ankylosaurs are actually fascinating as a result of yeah, just like the tail is actually heavy, and it’s heavy distant out of your physique, but when you concentrate on—for those who ever do like weights or something and also you strive like holding photographs, effectively I determine that is simply me, but when I simply maintain like a 15 pound weight like away from my physique like out from the facet, I normally can’t do it for very lengthy.

Garret: I don’t assume very lengthy.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Okay that’s good, so it’s actually exhausting. I provide you with like one and I’m like, “Oh God I’m drained,” [inaudible 00:21:21]. So yeah, so it takes much more like muscular power for us to carry a heavy weight like additional away from our physique. And it sort of makes you marvel if it’s the identical factor in an ankylosaur tail, as a result of these tail [inaudible 00:21:33] are actually heavy and their tails are fairly lengthy, not so long as like a [inaudible 00:21:38] tail, however they don’t have like—even actually straight [inaudible 00:21:40] have sort of brief tails, and ankylosaurs nonetheless have like proportionately lengthy tails.

So one factor that I believe is perhaps serving to a little bit bit with them not having to make use of like muscular energy to maintain the tail off the bottom is that this actually intricate sequence of ossified tendons that run alongside the tail membership. So ossified tendons are tendons like we have now in our our bodies, however they develop into ossified like [inaudible 00:22:06]. So a very good instance of one thing like that’s in turkeys. That is nice as a result of in Canada, we’re having Thanksgiving subsequent weekend. In turkeys, for those who ever ordered like a hen, whenever you eat the kind of drumstick piece, and there may be all the time that like actually skinny, like toothpick bone in there.

A part of that’s an ossified tendon, so, and I believe it’s all—Oh no sorry, that’s a part of the—that’s the fibula actually cut back, however there are ossified tendons in [inaudible 00:22:31] and a variety of fowl legs truly. So yeah so ossified tendons is one thing that we discover in a variety of dinosaurs, particularly a variety of herbivorous dinosaurs, however normally they’re extra kind of like over the again, and over the entrance of the tail. And in ankylosaurs all method down on the tip of the tail, and operating alongside that steep a part of the tail, the tail a part of the tendon.

So I believe that what’s most likely occurring is the ankylosaurs makes use of kind of like muscular tissues to maintain the tail within the entrance above the bottom, however then it’s most likely relying at the least a little bit bit on these ossified tendons to maintain the tail from dragging like actually closely on the bottom, and perhaps additionally utilizing it a little bit bit when it comes to swinging the tail backward and forward, as a result of the ossified tendons kind of retailer elastic power as effectively. And that’s one thing that’s a little bit bit tougher to mannequin if you find yourself doing mathematical mannequin of the tail bone. Sure, so I believe the ossified tendons most likely play a reasonably key function, though it’s a little bit tougher to really like check that and research it in a significant method.

Garret: Yeah, it makes a variety of sense. I figured there needed to be some sort of inside construction. I’ve a background in engineering, so like I’ve all the time checked out issues and imagining the stresses and forces concerned, and yeah.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Proper, it’s like doing this sort of work then, it’s actually enjoyable.

Garret: Yeah, it’s fascinating.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Yeah, so it’s a—I’m additionally not completely against the thought of ankylosaurs perhaps having their tail membership touching the bottom typically. We don’t have any proof for that, though there are ankylosaur [inaudible 00:24:00] there’s most likely largely nodosaurs or at the least ankylosaurs with out tail golf equipment, and so they don’t drag their tails. You don’t see tail drag marks in nodosaurs monitor leads.

So it’s a little bit up within the air whether or not or not ankylosaurs might have carried out that, however I don’t assume it’s too loopy that they struggle about issues like rested them on the bottom typically. Once more as a result of they’re like fairly heavy, and particularly in the event that they get larger and larger, they could droop a little bit additional.

Garret: Yeah fascinating, simply out of curiosity, why do you assume extra animals or dinosaurs don’t have osteoderms or some sort of armor?

Dr. Victoria Arbour: That’s a very good query. So osteoderms are bone, and bone is actually costly to keep up in your physique. Osteoderms are like particular bones that type within the kind of decrease stage of the pores and skin, they’re just like the dermal layer, in order that’s the place osteo means bone and dermis the pores and skin, they’re merely pores and skin bones. People don’t actually have something like that, however it isn’t unusual in different animals, so it’s the identical factor that types the shell of armadillos, turtles have osteoderms typically occasions of their legs and arms, however their shell is just not osteoderms, it’s truly their ribs.

Crocodiles have osteoderms and a few lizards like gila monsters, and gila monsters have osteoderms as effectively, however [inaudible 00:25:25]. So it’s one thing that we see kind of in a number of totally different teams, however not in each member of these totally different teams, as a result of once more like most mammals wouldn’t have like osteoderms. So it most likely has to do with the commerce offs in kind of sustaining a variety of further bone in your physique, and all the like minerals, and like sources that it will take to each develop these and maintain them maintained.

So it’s kind of a commerce off between the associated fee it’s important to put into it, and the profit that it does for you when it comes to say like not being human, or no matter different operate that osteoderms have. So osteoderms have a few totally different features that we all know of in trendy animals. They do provide safety in opposition to predation primarily if you find yourself very small. It is smart, however there’s precise proof behind that for like sure lizards, just like the thicker and extra osteoderms you could have, the much less seemingly you might be to [inaudible 00:26:19].

Garret: Okay.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: In crocodiles they appear to even have a thermoregulatory operate, in order that they appear to have a little bit of a operate in each like absorbing and dissipating warmth which could be very fascinating, as a result of they’ve blood vessels in them, in order that is smart. After which a paper that was revealed just lately additionally exhibits that they act as calcium storage websites. So when crocodiles are on the point of lay eggs, they pull calcium out of their osteoderms earlier than they pull it out of different bones of their physique. To allow them to additionally appear to behave a little bit bit as like calcium reservoirs for animals that lay eggs.

So osteoderms most likely have a variety of totally different functions, and in sure dinosaurs, they most likely additionally served as once more visible diploids, so it’s exhausting to argue that the plates of a stegosaurs that are osteoderms don’t have any sort of like visible signaling system or operate, as a result of they’re so huge and like flamboyant. They certainly should have some kind of like – that’s actually, that’s most likely what these are for.

And even some ankylosaurs are related, so some ankylosaurs have very like flamboyant [inaudible 00:27:24] osteoderms like enormous spikes on the entrance of the shoulder. They’re like giant, huge, triangular plates alongside the edges of the hips. So these most likely have a little bit little bit of a defensive operate, a little bit little bit of a thermoregulatory operate, perhaps they’re additionally working as calcium reserves, however they could even be visible indicators as effectively. In order that they most likely have a number of totally different features, after which it’s simply kind of a matter of just like the commerce offs of anybody or all of these features mixed versus once more the power after [inaudible 00:27:54] maintained.

Garret: Okay, yeah that is smart. That sort of jogs my memory there may be this paper, I believe it was this 12 months that talked about these giant pits that ankylosaurs would get of their osteoderms, did you occur to see that?

Dr. Victoria Arbour: I’m unsure I’ve seen that one, however ankylosaur osteoderms do typically have like actually bizarre texture, they’re actually like bubbly and nobly. A few of them appear to have pathologies in them. However yeah a few of them typically get these actually huge [pepsederm 00:28:24], and I believe that it’s actually fascinating, however I haven’t learn the paper with that but.

Garret: Okay, I used to be questioning if perhaps that was a part of it like there’s a danger for an infection that comes with osteoderms, or one thing that will make it in order that not all animals wished them.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: I don’t know, I imply osteoderms are nonetheless lined so their bones are usually not like uncovered in any respect. In order that they nonetheless would have been lined by like a scale, like a kind of like a sexy like virgin scale in life. Not very many animals have similar to straight up like uncovered bone. I believe one basic instance is armors, however armors are actually enormous. So, yeah like they might have been lined by some kind of like sexy overlaying. So I don’t assume they’d be liable to an infection like greater than different elements of the physique except in fact perhaps they’re tougher to heal in the event that they get bitten or broken or one thing like that, however that I’m unsure about.

Garret: Yeah, I believe within the paper there have been some explicit micro organism or one thing that they have been guessing might need gotten into it by like both a chew or another mechanism, after which it unfold or one thing like that.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Fascinating.

Garret: It’s fascinating. Yeah it was in, I simply discovered it. It was within the Journal of Paleopathology.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Oh that sounds enjoyable.

Garret: Yeah, I believe it’s the one article I’ve ever learn from that journal, however I have to test it out extra typically. So, on a lighter be aware, getting away from paleopathology, I do know that you just helped out the group making the sport Saurian on their digital ankylosaurs mannequin?

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Yeah.

Garret: Are there any options that you just sort of inspired them to incorporate or that you’re notably enthusiastic about which might be of their model?

Dr. Victoria Arbour: I’m actually enthusiastic about Ankylosaurus as a result of I believe that collectively we got here up with like one of the best, most correct reconstruction of it that’s on the market immediately. It was very nice working with them as a result of the primary draft they despatched me, I had a variety of feedback about it, they have been completely actually—and like not as a result of they’d carried out a foul job, simply it’s exhausting as a result of there may be not a variety of data on the market and realizing Ankylosaurus is such a family title. There isn’t a variety of data on the market. There may be a few papers, however they’re like skeletons and [inaudible 00:30:38] to go together with that.

So I had a variety of feedback, and so they have been actually nice about simply operating with it, and we kind of completely retold it like gave it a complete new kind of osteoderm association, like new interpretations. So I’m actually excited as a result of I believe it simply seems to be nice. I believe it seems to be like an actual animal, not like some sort of merged collectively monstrosity that Ankylosaurus typically appear to be as a result of they’re exhausting to interpret, and so they don’t actually appear to be something round immediately. So it’s sort of exhausting to love — they don’t seem to be like intuitive animals to reconstruct, and osteoderms are a variety of work for artists to work on.

Yeah, so I’m actually enthusiastic about that, after which it additionally was voted one of many new playable characters. After they launch the kind of first launch of the sport, it’s going to be the following one which turns into one of many kind of characters you may play from a child as much as an grownup. I’m actually excited to be working with them on kind of educating what I learn about Ankylosaurus [inaudible 00:31:36] and development generally, and making use of that to make kind of like a cool story for Ankylosaurus, so I’m actually trying ahead to it.

Garret: Yeah me too, I voted for Ankylosaurus with our kick begin of votes.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Oh good, I did too, however I’m most likely a bit biased. Yeah, so I believe it’s going to be actually enjoyable, and I believe—I’m truly not somebody who performs all of the video video games as a result of I are inclined to get like very movement sick from a variety of like, particularly like 3D video video games, however I’ve been actually excited to work on this and kind of do that new medium of scientific storytelling, as a result of it’s a little bit bit totally different than say like a tv documentary and even like a college course, as a result of the gamers get to make selections about what they’re doing as these dinosaur characters.

I believe it’s a extremely neat approach to get folks kind of extra immersed within the science behind dinosaur analysis as it’s immediately. And it’s similar to a cool medium to be serving to out with, so I’m trying ahead to it.

Garret: Undoubtedly, it’s too unhealthy that you just say you get movement sick, as a result of they will make a VR model too.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: I undoubtedly will be unable to play that one I do know, however I’m trying ahead to attempting this one out then. I’d simply should do it a little bit bit, however I believe it’s going to be actually good. I believe it’s going to be a variety of enjoyable.

Garret: Yeah, I like the colours that they selected too, or did you could have any impression on the orange and brown theme that they sort of put?

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Yeah, a little bit bit. In order that they got here up with a few totally different like various choices after which requested for my suggestions on them, and yeah I like going with kind of a brightly coloured ankylosaur. I kind of just like the excessive kind of distinction that prefer it’s kind of darkish, however then it obtained issues like shiny patches on the remainder of the physique. So I believe that appears fairly cool.

I wished to maneuver us away from like brown ankylosaur. As a result of they don’t essentially have to be like neon colours, however I believe they’re actual animals, and you recognize animals have totally different sorts of coloration patterns in some options, and surroundings all types of issues. So yeah why not have a pleasant colourful ankylosaur.

Garret: Yeah, and particularly whenever you talked about the porcupine analogy. If animals are simply going to keep away from it as a result of they acknowledge it as one thing you may’t actually mess with, it makes good sense for it to be brightly coloured, as a result of then you definately get the assembly show to associate with it.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Proper, and yeah a variety of animals use like warning coloration or at the least warning patterns, kind of shiny contrasting patterns to kind of point out hazard. We don’t actually have any proof for this in ankylosaurs, however I believe it appears fairly believable and affordable, yeah and nicer than simply having kind of like an everyday like simply brown ankylosaur, folks imagine so.

Garret: Yeah, or inexperienced like a variety of sample depictions.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Proper, yeah after which I’m positive some have been inexperienced, and that’s advantageous, however a variety of ankylosaur artwork doesn’t kind of painting ankylosaurs in very like favorable gentle. They typically do like simply sort of standing there not trying notably sensible or falling off cliffs is a factor that’s simply occurring additionally in ankylosaur artwork. I’ve like a number of examples of Ankylosaurus similar to falling off of hills. And I’m like, “Oh man, they’re not that,” I imply they’re most likely not like tremendous sensible animals, however they most likely might keep away from falling off the cliffs like some would have thought.

Garret: Yeah they’ve a low heart of mass; they’d be good at like not falling.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Proper, yeah it’s similar to a humorous factor that retains displaying up. I don’t actually assume I’ve seen that with different dinosaurs fairly often. It’s similar to a bizarre, I don’t know, it’s only a bizarre factor, a bizarre factor about Ankylosaurus.

Garret: That’s bizarre, cool, so similar to a sort of closing research-y query, is there the rest that you’re enthusiastic about, that you’re researching or trying ahead to?

Dr. Victoria Arbour: I’ve actually cool issues on the go that I can’t actually completely discuss but, however I hope that any listeners will keep tuned for cool ankylosaur stuff within the subsequent couple of years. I simply began a brand new put up doc on the Royal Ontario Museum, I used to be fairly helpful on the North Carolina Museum of Pure Sciences attempting some actually cool issues, I’m ending up there actually enormous weapons analysis at how dinosaurs introduced weapons. And a few of my focus on the Royal Ontario Museum goes to be a bit extra of like patterns in dinosaur bio geography.

So Ankylosaurus, but in addition like teams of 5 ankylosaurs and kind of understanding like how sea stage, and local weather, and land bridges, and various things like that influenced how they dispersed between North America and Asia through the [inaudible 00:36:13].

And I believe that’s going to be actually cool as a result of I believe we’re going to have the ability to study some actually fascinating issues about what kind of like environmental and organic components influenced broad scale migrations between [inaudible 00:36:25]. I believe that’s going to be actually […].

Garret: Does that tie into your analysis concerning the Ankylosaurus swimming?

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Sure a little bit bit. I hadn’t completely determined to take this path once I wrote that paper, however that paper kind of gave me the impetus to additional make investments a few of these issues. In that paper I had taken a take a look at a sample that had been famous by different affiliate […] earlier than that nodosaurid ankylosaurs appeared to wind up in marine settlements greater than ankylosaurid ankylosaurs.

I took one other take a look at that with among the new species that we have now recognized, the brand new specimens, and did some statistical evaluation and discovered that, yeah they do wind up in marine settlements extra typically than ankylosaurids, however not in every single place and never all the time. It’s largely in North America that we see that exact sample, and that’s most likely as a result of North America retains getting flooded by the large Western inside sea method.

In order that seaway has a extremely huge affect on ankylosaur range through the [inaudible 00:37:28] interval, as a result of at the least from the info that we have now proper now it looks like North America had it’s kind of personal like residence grown, like group of ankylosaurid ankylosaurs and nodosaurid ankylosaurs. However the ankylosaurs truly obtained extinct as the ocean stage will get actually, actually excessive, after which misplaced the species. And so a lot of the ankylosaurid is the one with tail golf equipment which might be actually well-known from North America like Ankylosaurus and Euoplocephalus are literally Asian immigrants that got here in a lot later and kind of re-colonized North America.

So it’s actually fascinating to see how issues like sea stage, and hopefully we are going to check out say like temperature or perhaps even issues associated to my weight loss plan or physique mass may kind of affect kind of like extinction occasions in numerous place or dispersal occasions in numerous place, and simply attempt to assist us perceive just like the sample of dinosaur evolution in North America, and perhaps we are going to even study a little bit bit about what’s in retailer of us as local weather modifications and [fear of horizons 00:38:29] these days. So I believe it’s going to be a extremely cool venture.

Garret: Yeah that sounds actually fascinating. I’ve to maintain my eyes peeled.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: It’s going to be a short time although as a result of I simply began, however I’m excited.

Garret: Nice, effectively thanks a lot for speaking to me. If folks wish to study extra about you or your analysis or comply with you, ought to they go to Twitter or the place ought to they go?

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Yeah, I believe Twitter might be one of the best place, and my Twitter deal with is actually easy. It’s simply my title, so @victoriaarbour.

Garret: Nice, yeah you put up a number of issues. I believe I re-tweeted one thing you posted immediately that I favored rather a lot.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Oh yay!

Garret: A part of your—what did you name—hole…

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Oh drooling.

Garret: Drooling that’s kind of about this.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Sure that’s one thing that I’m doing, largely only for enjoyable, however a variety of them are winding up having dinosaur too [inaudible 00:39:20].

Garret: Yeah, and kudos on the good artwork work. I favored your—all of them to this point truly.

Dr. Victoria Arbour: Thanks, that’s so good of you, thanks.

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