- Dinosaur

I Know Dino Podcast Present Notes: Edmontonia (Episode 102)

In our 102nd episode, we had the pleasure of talking with Peter Could, President of Analysis Casting Worldwide.

Episode 102 can also be about Edmontonia, a nodosaur discovered within the Edmonton Formation in Canada that had shoulder spikes.

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On this episode, we focus on:

  • The dinosaur of the day: Edmontonia
  • Named after the Edmonton Formation (now the Horseshow Canyon Formation, in Canada) the place it was discovered
  • A part of the nodosaur household
  • Lived within the Late Cretaceous
  • Charles Sternberg named the sort species, Edmontonia longiceps, in 1928. Longiceps means “lengthy headed” in Latin
  • Charles Sternberg didn’t classify Edmontonia, and L.S. Russell labeled it as Nodosauridae in 1930 (which has been confirmed)
  • George Paterson, the teamster on an expedition Charles Sternberg led, discovered Edmontonia longiceps in 1924 (on that expedition). He discovered a cranium, decrease proper jaw and a variety of the postcranial skeleton, together with the armor
  • Barnum Brown discovered Edmontonia rugosidens in 1915 in Alberta, Canada, and despatched it to the American Museum of Pure Historical past (although it wasn’t but named). William Diller Matthew referred the specimen to Palaeoscincus in 1922 in a well-liked science article, with out naming the species. It was supposed to call a brand new species, in conjnction with Brown, however the article wasn’t revealed. Matthew additionally referred one other specimen discovered by Levi Sternberg in 1917. Then in 1930 Charles Gilmore referred each of those specimens to Palaeoscincus rugosidens, primarily based on a sort speciment present in 1928 by George Fryer Sternberg. The species identify means “tough tooth.” In 1940 Lori Shano Russell referred all three specimens to Edmontonia rugosidens
  • Two foremost Edmontonia species: kind species Edmontonia longiceps, and Edmontonia rugosidens (which had its personal genus for some time, Chassternbergia, named by Bob Bakker as a subgenus in 1988 primarily based on residing earlier than Edmontonia longiceps and have a distinct cranium proportion. Then George Olshevsky gave it the complete generic identify in 1991. The identify honors Charles “Chas” Sternberg although this subgenus/genus identify is never utilized. Later finds have been referred to Edmontonia rugosidens)
  • In 1971 Walter Preston Coombs Jr. renamed the 2 foremost Edmontonia specia to Panoplosaurus longiceps and Panoplosaurus rudosidens however the identify Edmontonia was later revived
  • Different species: Edmontonia schlessmani (initially Denversaurus schlessmani till 1992), Edmontonia australis (named in 2000 by Tracy Lee Ford) although now thought-about to be a junior synonym of Glyptodontopelta mimus
  • Gregory Paul recommended in 2010 that Edmontonia rugosidens was a direct ancestor of Edmontonia longiceps, which was a direct ancestor of Edmontonia schlessmani
  • Cumbersome and like a tank. About 22 ft (6.6 m) lengthy, although Gregory Paul estimated in 2010 that two of the Edmontonia species, Edmontonia longiceps and Edmontonia rugosidens, had been about 20 ft (6 m) lengthy and weighed 3 tons
  • Had a pear like formed cranium (when considered from above)
  • Physique had many osteoderms
  • Plates protected its neck and shoulders
  • Had small bony plates on its again and head and sharp spikes alongside its sides. 4 largest spikes had been on its shoulders. In Edmontonia rugosidens, the second set of spikes on its shoulders break up into subspines
  • Edmontonia longiceps spikes had been comparatively small, measurement of spikes diversified in Edmontonia rugosidens
  • Shoulder spikes had stable bases
  • In all probability had giant spikes to draw mates or defend territory, additionally to intimidate rivals or predators or for self protection
  • Shoulder spikes wouldn’t have been nice protection, since they solely coated the shoulders (most likely not nice in opposition to giant theropods liks Albertosaurus and Dapletosaurus)
  • Spikes may have been like horns, the place Edmontonia locked them to point out dominance
  • Kenneth Carpenter described traits of Edmontonia in 1990, by evaluating it with shut relative Panoplosaurus (snout had parallel sides, cranium armor was clean on the floor, had shorter neural arches and neural spines than Panoplosaurus)
  • Carpenter additionally confirmed how two of the Edmontonia species had been totally different. Edmontonia rugosidens didn’t have sideways projecting osteoderms behind its eye sockets, and Edmontonia longiceps didn’t have an ossified cheek plate
  • Cranium was as much as 1.6 ft (0.5 m) lengthy and elongated, with a attractive higher beak
  • Had a “paranasal” tract that ran alongside the surface of the nasal cavity (first time present in a nodosaurid, however not an ankylosaurid, which had extra complicated air tracts
  • Could have stayed low to the bottom to forestall predators from flipping them over and attacking their underbelly
  • Didn’t have a tail membership (like ankylosaurids) and had a narrower mouth than ankylosaurids
  • Edmontonia appeared in “Dinosaurs: Unextinct” on the L.A. Zoo,” a brand new exhibit that opens April 15 and runs by Oct. 31.
  • Additionally on the LA County Truthful this yr (resulted in Sept)
  • Additionally a part of an exhibit on the NC Aquarium this yr (resulted in Sept)
  • Nodosauridae is a household of ankylosaurs
  • They lived within the late Jurassic to late Cretaceous in what’s now North America, Europe, Asia, and Antarctica
  • They had been medium to giant, and heavy
  • Quadrupedal herbivores
  • Had osteoderms on their our bodies
  • Enjoyable truth: An homage to Dippy… Dippy has been on show on the Pure Historical past Museum in London since 1905. A forged was ordered from the U.S. after King Edward the seventh noticed Carnegie’s sketch of the unique. In 2017 its 292 bones shall be packed up and it’ll tour the U.Okay. for not less than a couple of months.

This episode was delivered to you by:

The Royal Tyrrell Museum. The Royal Tyrrell Museum is situated in southern Alberta, Canada. One of many high paleontological analysis institutes on the earth, all the museum is devoted to the science of paleontology. It’s positively a should see for each dinosaur fanatic. Extra data will be discovered at tyrrellmuseum.com.

For individuals who could favor studying, see beneath for the complete transcript of our interview with Peter Could:

Garret: So we’re joined immediately by Peter Could, the president of Analysis Casting Worldwide they usually’re accountable for mainly the entire huge dinosaur tasks that we’ve talked about lately, not less than so far as museums are involved. So may you give us a short historical past of what sort of began you down this profession path?

Peter Could: Certain, yeah. We’ve been in enterprise for 30 years now, and so we work for museums all through the world. The earliest ones had been in New York Metropolis with the [inaudible 00:00:28] and people within the early 90s, late 80s, early 90s. And the British Museum we had been working there again then, museums in Japan.

There have been these and we’re nonetheless in contact with all these museums and it’s solely now some museums are coming again to us, the exhibit is outdated, 30 years outdated. They’re outdated, so now they’re calling us again to go and make things better up which is fairly neat.

Garret: So that you began with the rearing dinosaurs? That’s an enormous begin.

Peter Could: Yeah, it was. It was an enormous begin. We began there after which the British Museum in London, the Pure Historical past Museum it’s known as now with their dinosaur exhibit with about 25 skeletons for them again then.

Garret: So did you do Dippy again then? No, Dippy was older, proper?

Peter Could: Yeah, Dippy was within the corridor at the moment. They had been going again over to work on the Dippy in January this coming yr.

Garret: So that you’re mainly making it able to be disassembled and reassembled time and again whereas it travels round, proper?

Peter Could: Yeah. It’s going to be a travelling exhibit. I feel they’re 4, 5 venues simply now, and that begins a yr in January, so January 2018.

Interview: Cool.

Sabrina: Is it much more troublesome to get one thing prepared for journey versus staying on exhibitor?

Peter Could: One thing like Dippy is a bit harder as a result of it’s an outdated plaster now. These days a variety of the work we do is in plastic, fiberglass, and issues like that, and the mounts are made in order that they’re modular. So on this case what we’re doing, we’re taking the outdated mount which is then again within the 20s, after which we’ll flip right into a extra fashionable modular mount, as a result of the mum or dad comes collectively lots simpler.

Garret: Cool. So in case you’re making a brand new one for a museum even when it’s not touring, do you make it modular only for use sooner or later or…

Peter Could: Yeah, within the odd case we’ll wound one thing up, nevertheless it’s very uncommon. Now we’ve got key methods for utilizing, we machine the joints and we’ve got machine screws that maintain issues collectively.

Garret: Cool. So the opposite I feel actually huge factor you probably did lately was the titanosaur for the American Museum of Pure Historical past. What was casting that like? I noticed a few footage in your slide present.

Peter Could: Nicely that was an enormous return to the AMNH. We went in there a very long time, in order that was 1992, after which we had been again there final yr. After which what it was, it was the most important titanosaur we ever discovered and they’re excavated within the discipline in Argentina. So, sure we see in Berlin they usually requested us if we’d be concerned in there.

So we despatched a crew to Argentina with our scanners, digital scanners and because it got here out of the sector we scanned it. And it was being flipped over, we’d scan one facet after which they flipped the blocks, ready the opposite facet, then we despatched the crew down once more. And we went down in February for 2 weeks, then went down once more in Could, and we had every little thing scanned after which got here again to our store and we put that right into a CAD program, we coated it up on a milling machine, [inaudible 00:03:22] entry milling machine. And we carved the entire thing up after which we take molds off it. Then we mounted one for Argentina. It’s in [inaudible 00:03:30] proper now, then the opposite one went to the American Museum of Pure Historical past.

Garret: Cool, I didn’t understand there was one in Argentina too.

Peter Could: Yeah. And that was filmed in David Attenborough’s BBC present.

Garret: Yeah, they usually had [crosstalk 00:03:44] factor to go together with it.

Peter Could: Yeah, they had been down there for all that in Argentina.

Garret: Cool. Yeah. So with a titanosaur was there some 3D printing or is that the 5 axis…

Peter Could: That was 5 axis film, as a result of it was too huge to print. The printers we’ve got like they’re pretty small compared like you possibly can print possibly a foot, by a foot, by a foot.

Garret: Okay.

Peter Could: After which the cranium behind us there that’s a print initially.

Garret Could: Oh actually?

Peter: And we simply printed up in part by part, assemble it after which we take the mildew off of, and that’s the horned dinosaur.

Garret: I actually like the concept of utilizing 3D printing in all of this paleontology and casting, molding expertise as a result of it’s so accessible. And so that you mainly use it type of as like a step within the course of quite than doing the sculpting essentially or?

Peter Could: Nicely once more as an example like we’ve got two miles in entrance of a mosasaur and a plesiosaur, they usually’re going to herald to carry Kuwait and these are the size fashions have been constructed out of the proxy by our sculptors and we sculpt at small scale. We ship it to our shopper, they approve it and the approvals are at this stage after which what we do, we scan the fashions, after which enlarge the fashions to suit. Just like the mannequin right here is a couple of foot and a half and the completed one goes to go 48 ft lengthy, and it’s in manufacturing now in our store.

Garret: That’s superior; yeah these are like actually cool. Is that the primary stuff you’ve carried out within the Center East or have you ever carried out different stuff over there earlier than?

Peter Could: We’ve carried out a few smaller tasks in Egypt and we did one thing in Jordan.

Garret: Okay, so I don’t consider dinosaurs after I consider the Center East actually.

Peter Could: No. The museum they’re constructing is big.

Garret: Superior.

Peter Could: I feel it opens subsequent fall, and we’re because of set up there in March of subsequent yr.

Garret: Cool. Yeah they don’t do something small.

Peter Could: No.

Sabrina: So how many individuals work with you now?

Peter Could: Our workers proper now might be is 35 and we’ve got about our facility is I suppose a 48,000 sq. ft, and there we’ve got conservators who deal with the fossil supplies for the job on the Smithsonian. After which we’ve got a mounting space only for the Smithsonian. Now we have a collections there, and it’s all local weather managed as a result of they’re fossils, there aren’t any retailers, so we’ve got to take care of them.

Garret: Cool. You’re truly not simply mounting issues and rearranging issues, you’re truly making ready among the fossils proper there, a few of them had been nonetheless encased partially in like a jacket?

Peter Could: Yeah. They’re type of at a plaque, the one highway kill Stegosaurus, that’s its nickname. And it’s a facet specimen of [inaudible 00:06:20] Stenops and it was on the facet after which what we’ve carried out we [inaudible 00:06:25] and we’ve flipped it over and it’s mendacity on its plates. So the bottom nobody’s has ever seen since Nineteen Thirties when it was ready.

Garret: Superior.

Peter Could: And we’re going to mount it vertically. So what individuals will see is each side of the animal because it died.

Garret: That’s actually cool. How is all of the stuff going other than the…

Peter Could: It’s going rather well. Now we have a digicam so what we’re doing—which can also be outdoors and that was virtually utterly embedded matrix on the facet it’s mendacity on. And it’s a really, very laborious facet so we began to know why they didn’t proceed [crossover 00:06:53].

Garret: They did all the straightforward stuff however then left the remaining for you.

Peter Could: They went so far as they may I suppose comfortably. And so they most likely had a deadline; it was a type of issues they most likely accrued seeing it on the exhibit in order that they solely went as far as, “Nicely simply—we’ll put it mendacity down.” That’s nice.

Garret: Whenever you’re establishing an actual holotype or no forged of a dinosaur skeleton, I noticed that you just use large sandboxes or cellular sandboxes to carry the—how does that work?

Peter Could: Nicely we’ve got fairly a couple of there. Now we have them within the conservation, we’ve got in our blacksmith lab as nicely the place it’s like a fifth hand, third hand I suppose. And the place they’ll do like you possibly can set the fossil within the sand after which if something does occur, it’s not going to fall very far, it can fall simply into the sand. As a result of one rule you be taught very early is rarely maintain the fossil over the ground, as a result of if one thing does—and it does occur—some fossils are very outdated and conserved possibly 50, 60 years in the past within the conservancy, within the [inaudible 00:07:56], the outdated ones that they use. And that’s what we’re doing now, we’re eradicating as a lot of the outdated materials as we are able to and introducing new glues as he sits on the conservancy that had been accepted within the final one other 150 years.

Garret: Yeah. I didn’t take into consideration the glue failing after which a part of the fossil falling, that’s acquired to be…

Peter Could: Yeah, and it occurs, and you may see this. If you happen to look very intently, the outdated specimen that begin to crystallize, it’s an enormous hand if the glue joints are crystallizing then it’s most likely failed. And generally having a management break is advantageous to us as a result of then we are able to introduce molten solvents contained in the bone, then put together it just a little higher.

Garret: Fascinating.

Sabrina: So may you inform us a bit in regards to the course of you may have, the paleontologists who come to you after which they have already got just about what they need in thoughts and then you definately inform them what’s doable or?

Peter Could: Yeah. There’s an entire vary like there’s some paleontologists who know precisely what they need, after which what we do, we’ll get a sketch from a paleontologist after which we are going to do a drawing of it and likewise the place we are able to do that, this and this. Then we’ll return to them after which if they’ve any modifications to be made they’ll make them.

In different instances we get a stick drawing, they usually’ll say, “Do no matter you possibly can.” You guys have been doing so many as a result of over time we’ve carried out—we counted up a short time in the past, and I feel we’re most likely over 800 skeletons we’ve carried out on this duplicate.

So after we do, we go right into a museum, like in the event that they’re doing a brand new exhibit, the individuals there could not have mounted any, like they haven’t carried out something in any respect they usually don’t know what they need to do they usually might need little, little expertise. Then you may have different museums, they don’t have any expertise in any respect. So they appear to us for a little bit of steerage alongside the best way. After which we’ll take measurements of every little thing earlier than we begin mounting after which we all know how huge this fossil shall be and that’s the exhibit designers.

Then they know the way huge the instances should be as a result of there have been instances, like within the historical past of the corporate the place issues have been measured and gone to building for the instances, when the case come again they don’t match. And the larger one is a horse exhibit the place they went to the exhibit analysis firm they usually made all of the instances they usually despatched the instances to us and all of the instances had been vertical as an alternative of horizontal. So that you assume, nicely they need to have recognized it was a horse exhibit, horses don’t sit vertical however they’d 4 instances, every little thing was vertical, the legs. So whoever did it acquired the size with top blended up.

Sabrina: Oh no, so what did they find yourself doing?

Peter Could: They needed to make model new instances.

Sabrina: Yeah, that is sensible.

Peter Could: The width grew to become the peak, so prefer it’s all unusable.

Garret: Nicely it’s good that it wasn’t your mistake not less than.

Peter Could: Yeah, nevertheless it ought to happen nicely forward of time. That’s one instance we use after we do go to museums, like to ensure the measurements are okay and it’s normally higher for us to do it, as a result of with the exhibit designers at occasions it’s simply an afterthought, like they’ll be on the museum having a gathering, so nicely I’m there, I’ll make a measurement after which we go down and measure one thing within the gum after we go, and that’s our focus, then we’ll ensure that it’s correct.

Garret: You already know what you’re searching for whereas they’re simply going to eyeballing.

Peter Could: Yeah.

Garret: Cool. Do you may have a favourite mission that you just’ve labored on to this point?

Peter Could: They’re all thrilling I feel, as a result of they’re all new. The massive titanosaur was nice, it didn’t fairly match within the room, and we needed to make it match within the room. That was thrilling, and it’s all the time—I do know for us I feel it’s all in regards to the opening, as a result of we work, like in our store proper now, we most likely have 20 skeletons on the go.

So it was constructing skeleton, then once they transfer away from our store they usually go right into a museum then the opening—and it’s all the time the kids, they arrive in and, “Take a look at that.” I simply gentle up and they’re so completely satisfied and then you definately really feel that. We attempt to get as many workers out to a gap like that as we are able to simply in order that they’ll see their work on show, after which understand that it’s not only a job gluing bones collectively, it has one other function.

Garret: That’s nice. So do you may have a background in blacksmithing or how did you…

Peter Could: No, I don’t, Guth does, who’s right here, and Matt right here, he’s acquired some blacksmithing. My background is especially molding and casting facet. That’s going to be a sculpture so it’s throughout molding and casting and welding armatures and issues like that.

And now we’ve introduced crew in like [inaudible 00:12:16] a grasp blacksmith and Matt is a [middle line 00:12:19] so he is aware of his means across the machines and the engineering drawings and all that type of stuff. So we’ve got an excellent crew of skilled individuals now.

Garret: Cool. I noticed in your web site too, you even have a factor for sculpting and it’s a variety of inventive type sculpting in order that type of is sensible together with your background.

Peter Could: Yeah.

Garret: Cool.

Sabrina: So aside from the Smithsonian new displays approaching 2019, what else can we stay up for seeing from you?

Peter Could: Now we have the mission right here, the fashions right here. We’re doing it for the Naturist Museum in Kuwait.

Sabrina: Proper.

Peter Could: That’s subsequent yr after which we’re doing the blue whale skeleton for Pure Historical past Museum in London. After which we’ve got Dippy that’s happening in conjunction, one goes in, one goes out type of factor. After which we’re doing two blue whales, one for the [inaudible 00:13:06] in Toronto, one other one for Memorial College in St John’s Newfoundland, in order that they’re fairly huge, like 80 foot blue whale within the store, after which we’ve got two of them. Then we do one other one in England and that’s all by spring subsequent yr, so there’s lots happening simply there.

Sabrina: There may be yeah, busy.

Garret: How huge is your store you could match a blue whale and all these dinosaurs and every little thing in?

Peter Could: I feel round, nicely we’ve got a 40,000 sq. ft. We’re most likely 200 ft vast and 800 ft lengthy.

Garret: Wow.

Peter Could: Yeah, so it’s fairly huge.

Garret: So it’s mainly a warehouse?

Peter Could: Yeah.

Sabrina: Truly we noticed a video, was it ABC or one thing? ABC Information did like a two minute video of your warehouse?

Peter Could: Yeah.

Garret: Cool. Exterior of dinosaurs and prehistoric and issues and blue whales, are there another animals which might be actually widespread?

Peter:Could Nicely we delve into different areas like we’ve carried out coral reefs and we’ve carried out hydro thermal occasions, the planets, and the planets [inaudible 00:14:07] with ANMH we’ve carried out them.

Garret: Cool.

Peter Could: So we do, do different work however I imply bread and butter extinct animals and was on the verge of extinction just like the blue whale. So yeah was revolving round that type of factor.

Garret: Cool.

Sabrina: So yet another query we ask all people this, what’s your favourite dinosaur?

Peter Could: In all probability the Brachiosaurus [ph] in Berlin, yeah that’s a pleasant factor. Nicely it’s not as huge because the [inaudible 00:14:34] in comparison with these new ones arising. It’s type of the ears have shrunk just a little bit, nevertheless it’s nonetheless my favourite I feel.

Sabrina: Yeah, that’s a very good one. Nicely thanks a lot.

Peter: Okay thanks, it was superb, thanks.

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