Episode 494: Tarbosaurus with Phil Currie – remastered

We revisit our fourth ever episode of I Know Dino with improved audio high quality and updates on a few the matters we mentioned again in 2015.

In our fourth episode of I Know Dino, we had the pleasure of talking with Dr. Phil Currie, a famend paleontologist who has contributed a lot to paleontology that there’s even a museum named after him. Dr. Currie can also be a professor on the College of Alberta, the place he teaches the web course Dino 101, which fits over dinosaur appearances and main teams, how fossils are shaped and interpreted, how dinosaurs lived, dinosaur origins, and dinosaur extinction, and extra.

Dr. Currie has named 25 new dinosaurs and had three named in his honor. He’s additionally well-known for a centrosaurus bonebed, hadrosaur nesting websites, and the Canada-China Dinosaur Undertaking, and he has written quite a few books.

He began working on the Royal Alberta Museum in 1976, then often known as the Provincial Museum of Alberta, and located so many dinosaur bones the museum ran out of cupboard space. In 1979 he wrote the proposal for what’s now the Tyrell Museum, which showcases Alberta’s dinosaurs and has lab services, a research middle, and large cupboard space. In 2005 he took up the Canada Analysis Chair on the College of Alberta so he might spend extra time within the discipline.

So after all, we have been very honored to have the ability to interview him.

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On this episode, we talk about:

• The dinosaur of the day: Tarbosaurus, which implies “Alarming Lizard.”
• Tarbosaurus lived in Asia in the course of the late Cretaceous, about 70 million years in the past, and weighed as much as 5 tons, was 33-39 toes lengthy, and had 60 tooth (not fairly as massive as T. rex).
• Like T-rex, Tarbosaurus had small forearms, and in reality had the smallest forearms of all tyrannosaurs.
• Tarbosaurus lived within the Gobi Desert, in southern Mongolia.
• It was giant however had a light-weight skeleton.
• Tarbosaurus is extra historic than T. rex, which suggests the genus began in Asia and moved to North America by a land bridge that related the 2 continents.
• Enjoyable Reality: Most dinosaurs have been herbivores, however the first dinosaurs have been carnivores.

See under for the total transcript of our interview with Dr. Phil Currie:

Sabrina: First how did you change into fascinated with Paleontology?

Philip Currie: That’s an attention-grabbing story as a result of really I used to be a kind of children who preferred dinosaurs from the time after I was six years previous. And to me it was a field of cereal with a plastic dinosaur in it; that received me hooked. However by the point I used to be eleven I’d learn a e-book referred to as All About Dinosaurs by Roy Chapman Andrews. Andrews e-book was actually about what it was wish to be a Paleontologist or a scientist within the discipline, and the day I learn the e-book was the day I made a decision I used to be going to be a dinosaur paleontologist interval, full cease.

Sabrina: That’s nice, and I do know you’ve completed discipline work in Alberta, Antarctica, the Arctic, Argentina, British Columbia, China, Mongolia. What brings you to these locations and what particularly do you search for at these websites?

Philip Currie: Often it’s an invite that can take me to a unique place, however in some instances after all we need to work there. So for instance in Mongolia and China particularly within the Gobi Desert of each nations, the rocks are about the identical age because the rocks right here in Alberta, and the dinosaurs are very carefully associated to those in Alberta. The distinction is that the dinosaurs are preserved in a barely totally different manner, so although we’re trying on the identical dinosaurs mainly they’re preserved otherwise and they also give totally different data. So for me to get details about Alberta dinosaurs I needed to go work within the Gobi Desert primarily to grasp what was happening there so I might higher perceive what was happening right here. And it’s been a really profitable program that manner.

Sabrina: So what are a number of the variations in the way it’s preserved?

Philip Currie: Nicely for instance, in Alberta there’s a bent for the massive animals to be very nicely preserved, however the small animals are typically very spotty we’ll say. And the reason being after all you might have tyrannosaurs operating round, and if tyrannosaurs discovered something in any respect, dwelling or useless, they’d eat it. And for those who occurred to be small there wasn’t a lot left. Secondly I feel that the atmosphere was such that the rivers have been fairly robust, and they might reduce into the riverbanks and undercut skeletons and rework the bones and so forth, and for those who occurred to be a thick animal the place the bones are heavy they’ll simply fall to the underside of the stream they usually get buried there they’ll keep kind of in affiliation, however the small ones get busted up fairly badly by the river and get washed downstream. So it’s not that the bones aren’t there, simply that the skeletons aren’t there. In order that’s type of a traditional preservation right here in Alberta, small dinosaurs have been very uncommon. And within the case of Mongolia it’s nearly the alternative. What occurs is that the atmosphere was barely totally different. It was semi-arid to arid atmosphere, fairly often the small specimens received buried within the sand dunes moderately than the rivers, and as a consequence of that these skeletons have a tendency to remain collectively, so we needed to take a look at the, say the anatomy of dromaeosaurid right here in Alberta, dromaeosaurid embrace velociraptor. We’ve by no means discovered a whole one in Alberta earlier than, however for those who go to Mongolia then after all you possibly can see a whole specimen of velociraptor, then you possibly can perceive what all of the skeletal bones seem like. And then you definitely come again to Alberta after which establish all these remoted bones that we have now that are very laborious to establish in any other case, by no means seen them earlier than.

Sabrina: Is Mongolia type of the most effective place to go for you for excavation or is it your favourite?

Philip Currie: After Alberta, I imply Alberta is my favourite as a result of it’s my yard and I can go outdoors and I acquire dinosaurs really lower than ten kilometers from right here. Theoretically I ought to be capable of discover them a few hundred meters from right here, however the actuality is that after we in contrast different areas Mongolia has a unique type of preservation as I discussed, however you get lots of massive skeletons preserved too. And the factor is you possibly can nearly exit every single day in Mongolia and discover a new dinosaur skeleton. Right here it takes slightly extra time to try this. We have now extra bones total however skeletons, they’ve extra skeletons. So it’s steadiness.

Sabrina: So I learn the Dino Video games e-book, and nicely simply rapidly, it talked about your spouse Eva’s a paleobotanist and a paleontologist. So you’re employed very carefully collectively, and does she go on all of the digs with you and all the pieces?

Philip Currie: Eva will get to come back on all of the digs with me which is incredible. It’s actually good to have a unique perspective whenever you’re fossil sources as a result of you understand within the actuality is we’re fascinated with all fossils, although I could focus on theropod dinosaurs I do work on something that I discover primarily as a result of it’s all attention-grabbing and it’s all helpful for someone when it comes to attempting to determine possibly the […](00:05:34) environments or the ecosystem or no matter. And in her case as a result of she works on fossil vegetation and pollen and spores, pollen and spores are excellent really for figuring out the extent that these bones come from and what age they’re. And consequently she has a unique perspective, and that helps. The opposite good factor for me although is that it doesn’t take her very lengthy to gather her specimens, after which she has to assist me.

Sabrina: Your space of experience is theropods, origin of birds, dinosaur migration patterns and herding habits. What led you to deal with this stuff?

Philip Currie: Nicely I’m very fascinated with form of the biology of dinosaurs typically, and for the theropod dinosaurs it’s type of a pure, you understand the plastic dinosaur I actually needed after I was a child was tyrannosaurus rex and we get tyrannosaurus rex right here. So it’s one thing I can go and discover, but in addition the kin of tyrannosaurus rex. The origin of birds got here in type of sideways as a result of I by no means thought I might ever say something concerning the origin of birds initially just because beds in Alberta are Cretaceous in age. They’re most likely thirty or forty million years after birds first appeared. In order that they’re too late in time actually one would assume to let you know a lot concerning the origin of birds. However the truth is it ended up taking a really attention-grabbing twist as a result of a number of the small meat consuming dinosaurs right here, issues like troodon and dromaeosaurus, these are very birdlike in lots of methods and after I was educated at College, major concepts have been that birds most likely didn’t come from dinosaurs. Birds most likely got here from crocodiles or thecodonts or possibly another group. However the extra I checked out these meat consuming dinosaurs from the late Cretaceous the extra I spotted how chicken like they have been, together with to very very small particulars similar to the position of nerves and holes within the cranium that you just wouldn’t anticipate until there was some type of relationship. Additionally due to our work in China we had contacts there, and I ended up being invited to work on a number of of the species of feathered dinosaurs in China, and this has come round full circle now as a result of we’re discovering feathered dinosaurs right here in Alberta. Regardless that they’re late Cretaceous in age, they’re theropod dinosaurs, and they’re very chicken like. And there’s lots we will find out about say the construction and evolution of feathers by our late Cretaceous feathers as nicely.

Sabrina: I additionally learn you labored with pc fashions to study extra about dinosaurs, and I do know it, I took the category Dino 101 and I noticed it had a couple of interactive components which was actually cool. Do they assist to make clear dinosaur habits?

Philip Currie: Pc modeling is the type of factor that you just don’t anticipate dinosaur folks to do, proper? However the great thing about it’s that dinosaur bones fairly often are very heavy, they’re huge, they’re fragile, they’re very laborious to deal with in your arms so you possibly can’t manipulate issues all that simple. I imply it’s not like we don’t have methods to do it. We do we will forged them and switch them into gentle plastic after which play with them that manner. However it’s lots simpler simply to scan specimens or CG scan specimens after which digitize them on a pc. After which we’ll be capable of manipulate the bones. And fairly often it doesn’t let you know precisely what the dinosaur was doing with the say leg bones, however what it does offer you is a spread of prospects. So it reveals how far they’ll stretch their legs for instance, or how far they may fold their legs up. After which that’ll offer you some data and then you definitely work on the premise that someplace in between might be the fact. And when you do sufficient of this type of work issues begin to fall collectively and begin to constrain one another, every one in every of these fashions that we do, and consequently you do I feel find yourself with a fairly reasonable concept of what the animals have been able to. Actually it’s a great way to do say limb fashions or biomechanics the place we’re say how jaws closed and the way they chewed issues. However the CT scans and the pc modeling additionally assist us with inner anatomy so for instance the mind case of a dinosaur, we will CT scan a cranium. Doesn’t present the mind cavity itself, however from the CT scans we will then get the data on the mind cavity after which we will see the place the nerves have been operating and that helps us interpret how the animal was dwelling, how they have been interacting, what they have been able to and all these issues. So it’s fairly superb what pc modeling has completed for paleontology over the past twenty years particularly, and as I stated it’s fairly often we will’t get a particular reply however we will method a lot nearer to actuality by doing the modeling.

Sabrina: So do you utilize this system lots now?

Philip Currie: Nicely I’m nonetheless an previous model paleontologist the place I choose to exit into the sector and acquire issues. Do the preparation and do the outline. And I do some pc modeling and I work with pc fashions nevertheless it’s one thing that we’ve made certain that our college students perceive higher as a result of it’s changing into progressively extra essential for them to have the ability to do this. at this stage I’d say there have been fairly a couple of dinosaurs that we have now the digitized data on skeletons for, and naturally we will make that data out there for different researchers anyplace on this planet. However we nonetheless don’t have all the pieces out there and as time goes on and increasingly of those digitized skeletons change into out there for folks to work with and naturally it’s going to change into progressively extra essential for his or her work, so we ensure that our college students perceive the stuff very nicely they usually do lots of pc modeling. As nicely after all we nonetheless drag them into the sector and make them discover specimens and acquire them and do the fundamental analysis on them. And since that’s additionally crucial to us.

Sabrina: So I simply needed to convey up Dino 101 slightly bit, and it’s a free course open to anybody who needs to affix, no stipulations, and after studying the e-book Dino Video games I received the sense that you just’re very open and alluring along with your work. So what made you resolve to create this course?

Philip Currie: Nicely I can’t take credit score for it as a result of it was the Dean of Science of the College of Alberta who first introduced it to our consideration that we might do this type of factor. And naturally my first query was, what’s a mooc? I requested him why an open course, and I had no concept. It all the time appeared to me that this was an essential manner that the science was going as a result of so many individuals are fascinated with dinosaurs and I get contacted on a regular basis by emails or letters or folks phoning or displaying up in my workplace or no matter. So there’s no query that the urge for food is on the market, and appeared to me that this was a brand new space for instructing and what we needed there was be sure that it was additionally one thing we might incorporate within the college system. So out of Dino 101 we even have two programs on the college. One which is named Paleo 200, and the opposite one which is named Paleo 201. 200 is simply the Dino 101 course primarily besides folks pay tuitions they usually take exams they usually get graded on it. So 201 goes past that the place we have now discipline journeys, particular lectures and so forth. So it dietary supplements the fundamental course itself. What we needed to do after all is within the college see if the truth is we might flip this course right into a fundamental introductory course so that folks might transfer on from the introductory course into different programs in paleontology. And I wasn’t certain how that was going to work, I wasn’t certain the way it was going to work to most of the people with Dino 101 both. It’s simply a kind of issues that you just take an opportunity on, you imagine in that you understand there’s super potential to it however whether or not or not you’ll ever understand that potential is one other matter. I must say it succeeded on all ranges that, you understand, we have now near fifty thousand college students now with Dino 101. It has the most effective file for folks finishing the course as a result of lots of people they pattern mooc programs however they don’t really full them. And in addition there are many logistics which can be fairly attention-grabbing. folks are likely to assume that it’s little boys who like dinosaurs however the actuality is we’ve impacted extra women who take the course, so it’s fairly attention-grabbing that manner too. It actually was one thing that we thought most likely would work. We had no concept the way it was going to work. And it’s been a terrific schooling for me to see that although the course was actually geared toward being for a primary yr college scholar, or a better degree highschool college students, in actuality we had folks as younger as six years previous undergo the course and you understand with the assistance of their mother and father for a number of the issues they’ve managed to do very nicely. And so it takes the lid off what you assume you are able to do. Our oldest scholar I feel was nicely into her eighties, so it’s reached lots of people and taught us lots about schooling as nicely.

Sabrina: Ah ya, that’s a wide array. How typically does the course run?

Philip Currie: We run the course twice a yr proper now, and so we’ll begin in September after which they’ll begin once more in January most years. That’s been the sample to this point. We could up it to 3 instances a yr, we’re probably not certain but. We’re again within the technique of growing one other degree of the course per se which we’re tentatively calling Dino 102, and that’ll be extra specialised than Dino 101. So for instance I’ll spend lots of time speaking concerning the origin of the birds from theropod dinosaurs. So we’ll see how that goes too.

Sabrina: Oh wow. So you understand I’ll take that class.

Philip Currie: Good.

Sabrina: So there’s lots of interactive components in Dino 101. You’ve received video classes, photographs, however there’s let’s see the 3D fossil exploring atmosphere the place you organize bones on-line, and the interactive timeline that tells us concerning the totally different ages on earth. How did you and your staff provide you with these components?

Philip Currie: Nicely we have now lots of inventive thinkers together with our previous graduate college students who work in paleontology. All people’s received totally different experiences and other ways of approaching issues and so essentially this has been a staff effort the place we sit down, we brainstorm and provide you with concepts. A few of the concepts don’t work in addition to we’d like them to, we exchange them with different concepts and so forth. However you understand the interactive museum concept particularly I actually like as a result of it’s one thing we’re doing anyway and I we’re taking bones and we’re as I discussed digitizing them, and we’re utilizing them for pc modeling. And so one of many actual disadvantages after all with a web based course is that folks can’t deal with the precise flows. They will’t go to a laboratory and choose them up and take a look at these fossils. However by doing the digitized fashions on-line then after all that does give folks a possibility to see this stuff from all sides, although it’s a pc mannequin, by no means the much less it’s the identical type of factor that we might work on after we’re doing pc mannequin so there’s one thing to be realized from that. A few of these issues have actually labored very nicely for us and different ones we’re nonetheless new concepts, new methods of doing it.

Sabrina: In accordance with Dino Video games you’re a dino hunter, what does that imply?

Philip Currie: Dino hunters are individuals who exit and hunt fossils after all, and in my case I’m particularly searching for dinosaurs. And whether or not I’m searching dinosaurs in my house metropolis of Edmonton or whether or not I’m the truth is working in Antarctica or the arctic there’s lots of work concerned in going out and discovering dinosaur bones. They don’t simply out of the blue seem in entrance of you otherwise you simply can’t stroll proper as much as them and there they’re typically. Normally you might have to spend so much of time strolling and searching. And so for instance a traditional day in Dinosaur Provincial Park could be for us to stand up early within the morning and begin strolling and stroll all day searching for fossils. We’ll discover fossils on a regular basis however when it comes to essential fossils, issues which can be actually distinctive, you need to stroll a protracted very long time. So on common regardless of the truth that Dinosaur Park has produced over eight hundred skeletons through the years, whenever you take a look at the quantity of manpower that’s put into discovering these eight hundred skeletons it really works out to about 4 man weeks for every one. So 4 man weeks means you’re strolling 4 weeks with out discovering anything. It’s not fairly that straightforward after all nevertheless it nonetheless reveals you that there’s the truth is lots of work concerned find issues. We go to lots of locations just like the Arctic and the Antarctic, typically we’re strolling as much as twelve or sixteen hours a day and also you don’t discover a single scrap of bone of something. And but on the finish of the expedition you’ll have discovered one thing that’s solely a single bone, which if in Alberta frankly we might most likely ignore as a result of it’s not that essential, however within the Arctic or the Antarctic that’s an identifiable bone that tells you what animals have been the truth is dwelling in that space, and it turns into a vital specimen. And you place lots of effort into discovering it or looking for it.

Sabrina: Proper. So in Antarctica or the Arctic did you set off on these expeditions anticipating to search out one thing or did you might have like a tip or one thing, how did you find yourself there?

Philip Currie: The arctic was no tip. We knew that dinosaur bones had been present in some instances earlier than. These are simply remoted bones that have been discovered fortuitously by say geologists or someone doing biology on polar bears or no matter. So the arctic, we didn’t have any clues aside from the truth that we knew the rocks have been the appropriate age and the potential was there of discovering dinosaur bones. In order that was an attention-grabbing story as a result of we went up there first in 1986, and we appeared and appeared and appeared and we didn’t get something but for one thing like six weeks. And the next yr there was an Inuit boy on the market with a geologist, and he discovered a dinosaur bone. And naturally as soon as he discovered it then we knew okay the world he was was possibly a pair hundred kilometers away from the place we have been. So we went again in 89, went to the place the place he discovered these bones, and that bone, that preliminary bone, we discovered tons extra dinosaur bones. So that you all the time should take the possibility typically with these websites. Antarctic was slightly bit totally different although as a result of in 1990 a geologist was mainly measuring a bit […](00:21:15) of the rocks on a mountainside, which is just about the middle of Antarctica. And he discovered dinosaur bones, and so in 1990 the specimen was discovered, it was partly excavated however after all the situations are very troublesome, it’s very costly to work there. So we have been in a position to go along with a celebration in one thing like 13 years after the specimen was discovered initially to attempt to acquire the remainder of the skeleton. And that was a completely superb expertise for working 600 kilometers from the South Pole and 4 thousand meters, about eleven thousand toes above sea degree. And so it was chilly. And, however we received one other a part of the skeleton, a few third of the skeleton out and we lastly went again 2010 and completed the job lastly, and within the technique of doing that we received to go searching slightly bit, we discovered a number of extra dinosaur skeletons in the identical space. So it was a matter of attending to the world first. As soon as we’re within the space then we began to get higher luck and get higher specimens. So it’s all the time this mix and typically you’re very fortunate and like someone from most of the people was strolling their canine at one website in Edmonton, and simply occurred to discover a dinosaur. Brings it to our consideration and we understand that hey, this can be a cool website. So we go up and test it and certain sufficient.

Sabrina: Within the e-book it seemed like your focus is on carnivores and particularly Tarbosaurus that… okay.

Philip Currie: Albertosaurus sarcophagus is the truth is a dinosaur a dinosaur, it’s very carefully associated to tyrannosaurus rex. Right here in Alberta we have now one other one referred to as daspletosaurus, and the three animals kind this little sub-family group that every a kind of could be very carefully associated to one another. Tarbosaurus is a really attention-grabbing one although. It’s discovered within the Gobi Desert, and the place it’s discovered it’s a dominant animal. It’s the most typical dinosaur we discover there. That doesn’t make any sense, as a result of when you consider it you possibly can’t have extra lions than antelope. Principally they should eat and in the event that they should eat there needs to be sufficient meals for them. So usually what occurs is the carnivores solely make up about 5 % of any fauna. That’s true right here in say Alberta the place most of our tyrannosaurs are fairly uncommon animals. There’s solely a kind of for each twenty or so plant consuming dinosaurs. However in Mongolia it’s fifty-fifty. That doesn’t actually compute. One thing else is occurring there. So it’s a really attention-grabbing downside to attempt to determine why we get so many Tarbosaurus skeletons in Mongolia. We’re speaking possibly between seventy and 100 skeletons now that we all know of from Mongolia. And that’s the identical quantity that we have now of duck-billed dinosaurs and horn dinosaurs and armor dinosaurs and so forth. All these animals put collectively solely make up the identical factor and the identical quantity as tarbosaurs. We all know it’s received one thing to do with some type of preservational bias although. There’s one thing selectively preserving extra tarbosaurs than anything. And we all know that as a result of the identical beds nearly will produce footprints. And the footprint sightings are very totally different, as a result of although they’re interspersed with the place we discover the skeletons, after we take a look at the variety of footprints, Tarbosaurus is simply about 5 % of the animals. So the footprints are telling us this can be a regular ecosystem, the skeletons are telling us this isn’t regular. And we have now a couple of concepts, you understand, for instance it’s fairly potential that Tarbosaurus was a really efficient carnivore that ate nearly all the pieces there was to eat of any animal, nevertheless it didn’t go away a lot proof of the plant consuming dinosaurs it was consuming. We all know that Tarbosaurus, like tyrannosaurus rex, had these huge tooth and bone-crunching jaws that have been most likely unbelievable when it comes to what they’ll do and course of. And we had a really attention-grabbing journey a few years in the past to Komodo Nationwide Park in Indonesia to take a look at komodo dragons and the way they perform. And we witnessed a big pig and wild boar, each the identical measurement as a komodo dragon, which was eaten by 9 komodo dragons who utterly dismembered it. They ate all the pieces, completely all the pieces, even the hair. Fully gone in lower than twenty minutes.

Sabrina: Wow.

Philip Currie: And there was nothing left, nothing however the scent. However it was a terrific schooling too as a result of I by no means realized that komodo dragons might do this type of factor, they usually don’t have the type of tooth that say one thing like Tarbosaurus had. Tarbosaurus had tooth that basically have been as nicely tailored as say a hyena is at this time when it comes to consuming animals. In order that’s actually one risk for explaining it. The one factor is you understand, okay nicely why does it occur there, and why doesn’t it occur right here? Why isn’t tyrannosaurus rex doing the identical factor? So these little puzzles are very attention-grabbing and it’s enjoyable to develop a idea or a speculation and exit and see if you will discover proof to assist it or refute it. And that’s an enormous a part of our enjoyable now and we mainly paleontologists are detectives. we’re these crime scenes and are sixty or 100 million years previous and we’re attempting to determine what occurred. And it’s lots of enjoyable, it’s nice, a terrific psychological course of attempting to work this stuff out whereas working with fascinating animals all by themselves.

Sabrina: So I do know one in every of your theories is that dinosaurs could have lived in gangs. Might you elaborate slightly bit on that?

Philip Currie: Certain, and you understand Alberta right here we have now these incredible websites everywhere in the province the truth is the place you understand we don’t discover entire skeletons per se, what we discover are bone beds. And within the bone beds we have now stays of many people the place all of the bones have fallen aside, primarily the skeletons have fallen aside and the bones have change into combined collectively. So that you typically can’t inform which bones belong to which people. Nevertheless, a few of these bone beds are dominated by single species of animals. I began engaged on this within the Nineteen Seventies and realized that every one actually after I put all my time into it at the moment is was a ceratopsidae concerned and have been greater than seventy ceratopsium or horned animals had died in the identical place on the identical time. And the one manner I’m in a position to clarify this was that these animals have been dwelling collectively on the time of their loss of life, they usually have been most likely dwelling collectively as much as the time of their loss of life. And this implied that these animals the truth is had a social construction. We’ve now had an amazing quantity of proof of those horned dinosaurs travelling in herds. We have now herds in Dinosaur Park now that appear to symbolize mass loss of life websites, so hundreds of animals. And in different elements of the world like Montana we now know that duck billed dinosaurs have indicators which strongly suggests these animals have been shifting in very giant herds as nicely. Alaska as nicely has proof of herds. Right here in Edmonton, ten kilometers from my home we have now a herd of edmontosaurus, one of many greatest duck billed dinosaurs. And so forth and so forth. So we all know, I feel we’re fairly certain that the plant-eating dinosaurs previous to the late Cretaceous have been the truth is herding animals and possibly migrating animals as nicely. Now the factor is that for those who take a look at a contemporary ecosystem the place you might have giant herds of herbivores, you nearly invariably have packs of carnivores as nicely. And that’s as a result of the herbivores are ganging collectively partly in order that they’ll shield themselves from the carnivores. That’s good for the herbivores, it’s not good for the carnivores. Carnivores have to eat, so mainly they work out little social constructions as nicely. So for those who go to the African veldt for instance, lions that are very carefully associated to tigers, lions are very particular social constructions. And that’s as a result of they transfer in teams or prides or household teams, they usually hunt collectively they usually’re going after after all herds of antelope, herds of zebra, herds of different issues. So there’s a robust affiliation between herds and packs or herds and prides. Identical factor in North America with herds of caribou and packs of wolves, for instance. You all the time see these type of issues.

Now for a very long time in dinosaurs we knew that we have now these monumental herds of duckbilled dinosaurs, monumental herds of horned dinosaurs, however we didn’t have any proof for the carnivores doing the identical factor. However a curious factor occurred in that after I was doing a little museum looking out at one level I discovered a few 1910 Barnum Brown who on his very first expedition to gather dinosaurs in Alberta discovered the location the place there have been all these tyrannosaurs that have been dwelling collectively or had died collectively. And he had elements of 9 skeletons of the tyrannosaurus, albertasaurus from one single place. And that received me fairly excited so we dug up no matter it’s we might to assist us re-find the location, and there was {a photograph} fortunately, and that one {photograph} ultimately led to the invention of the location that Brown had excavated in 1910. Nicely Brown had solely excavated a part of the skeleton, and he the truth is had misplaced lots of it within the floor sill, so we took the quantity from 9 animals to greater than twenty animals within the one bowl mattress. And this can be a place the place we have now tyrannosaurs and we have now a couple of duck-bill dinosaur bones, however they appear to be nearly ancillary, they’re simply there accidentally. They have been washed in by the river, they usually’re not articulated animals. So out of the blue we had this proof that implies that at the very least some tyrannosaurs moved collectively in packs. And we began different tyrannosaur websites to see if the truth is there was proof of different tyrannosaurs have been doing the identical factor as albertasaurus. And Tarbosaurus in Mongolia, one of many causes we could have so many animals there and why they outnumber all of the plant consuming dinosaurs as nicely is as a result of possibly this stuff the truth is have been additionally shifting in packs, and what we’re discovering in Mongolia are remnants of those packs that received trapped by some pure course of and killed a number of people. So proper now I feel I really feel fairly strongly about the truth that we have now packs of meat consuming dinosaurs which can be the truth is searching herds of plant consuming dinosaurs.

Sabrina: Is {that a} extensively accepted idea?

Philip Currie: Nicely it’s very attention-grabbing due to course after we first proposed that we had a herd horn dinosaurs, all people was very a lot towards that. All people was saying that dinosaurs have been simply typical reptiles, and reptiles at this time don’t often transfer in any type of social groupings. So there was lots of resistance to that originally, however the factor is that we received a lot proof, there was so many locations in Alberta the place we had these herds of horn dinosaurs, or between Montana and Alberta the place we had these herds of duck invoice dinosaurs and subsequent to that after all we discovered a number of websites, of footprint websites the place we have now different kinds of dinosaurs too, together with the large sauropods, who reside in teams. So all of the proof ultimately turned so overwhelming that I feel the vast majority of folks settle for it simply by the, this tidal wave of data that was being collected worldwide. With the carnivores you’re coping with animals which can be a lot rarer, and consequently you might have a a lot decrease probability of discovering groupings like this. However now we have now fairly a couple of websites which can be doing the identical type of factor. So I’d say the concept is new sufficient that there’s nonetheless fairly a little bit of resistance to the concept, however I feel as time goes on and other people look into it extra and attempt to show or disprove it, it doesn’t matter which, you do the truth is acquire proof that’s going to point out what actuality was like. And proper now I’d say that the shift is coming in direction of folks accepting extra of the concept that these animals did transfer in teams.

Sabrina: So I do know you’ve collaborated similar to with the Korea Mongolia Worldwide Dinosaur Undertaking. Do you discover that you just study extra from working in groups, or extra by yourself? Which do you favor?

Philip Currie: I type of like each, however the actuality is with you understand small tasks you are able to do these by your self. However whenever you’re coping with one thing that doubtlessly has an amazing quantity of data which you can collect collectively or the place you want totally different sorts of sciences or folks with totally different varieties of experience to work collectively, then the bigger tasks work higher as groups. Paleogeology like all the sciences turns into way more multi-disciplinary and multinational through the years, and we discover that ya we should still do particular person tasks, however I feel that almost all of the tasks we’re working with you need to make some true breakthroughs, then it’s actually good to work collectively as a gaggle. There’s some actual benefits in that.

Sabrina: If you happen to had a want record of finds what could be on the high of it?

Philip Currie: Oh my want record would most likely be troodon. Troodon’s a… was first present in 1854, for those who imagine it. A single tooth in Montana. And after a very long time we had no concept what troodon was. It was a small theropod dinosaur for some folks. For different folks it was a lizard. For different folks it was a plant consuming dinosaur, we actually had no concept. However within the Eighties we the truth is discovered a jaw right here in Alberta which proved that troodon was a carnivorous dinosaur. Turned out to be one other dinosaur that we had referred to as Styracosaurus which turned out was the brainiest dinosaur we knew of. Largest identified mind. That is an animal the place the mind at, for its physique measurement, is about six instances the dimensions of a crocodile of the identical physique measurement. It’s an animal that has binocular imaginative and prescient, like us. It sees issues in three dimensions. It had arms that might manipulate issues. It had very lengthy legs that have been constructed for velocity. It’s a runner. And now we all know from assessments in Mongolia and China that that is the truth is a feathered dinosaur as nicely. And possibly the dinosaur that’s most carefully associated to birds. Now the curious factor is that in any case these years we nonetheless discover bits and items of this dinosaur however we have now by no means discovered a complete skeleton, and so for me I’d simply like to discover a entire skeleton simply to know that every one the issues that we put collectively through the years, all the proof the truth is is right.

Sabrina: My final query is, what recommendation would you give to budding paleontologists, or people who find themselves simply captivated with dinosaurs?

Philip Currie: Nicely after all there’s some ways to be captivated with dinosaurs, there are a lot of individuals who focus on dinosaurs in very other ways. And naturally not all people likes to analysis, not all people likes to do discipline work, not all people likes to work in dusty collections in an previous museum. Some folks love to do issues on pc modeling and all the pieces, there’s simply so some ways you possibly can work on dinosaurs, and if you wish to change into a analysis paleontologist you actually should go the entire mile. You need to undergo your education, you need to attempt to get a doctorate ultimately, you need to publish analysis papers, be good at writing and illustration, at discovering issues and all the remainder of it. I imply there’s lots of issues concerned, however there are additionally individuals who like dinosaurs who solely go so far as changing into say collections managers. They don’t do a lot analysis, they’re extra fascinated with simply dealing with and dealing in fossils themselves. Or changing into technicians the place they’re doing preparation on dinosaurs. I like doing preparation however I by no means have time to do preparation as a result of I spend most of my time after all writing and issues like that. There’s different people who find themselves the truth is artists who focus on nothing however dinosaurs. There’s three in Alberta alone who’re world well-known artists who do nothing however work on the dinosaurs. So there’s some ways to pores and skin a cat, and it’s mainly you need to resolve precisely what you need, and you need to then discover the best way to do it. The mechanism to do it. In my case it was a matter of whilst a highschool scholar I used to be going to individuals who have been already paleontologists and asking them what I wanted to do when it comes to my course work to get into the college and focus on dinosaurs particularly. In different instances after all for those who’re an artist and also you need to do it that manner then you definitely method artwork college, see what you are able to do that manner. However major factor is don’t be afraid to speak to folks, as a result of all people within the discipline whether or not you’re a analysis scientist or an artist who focuses on dinosaurs, they’re very prepared to speak to folks and see them develop a choice to your profession.